>> Cathy: ANOTHER BUSY WEEK IN WASHINGTON D.C.

AS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT CONTINUES TO REOPEN AFTER THE LONGEST SHUTDOWN IN HISTORY.

AMONG THE MANY NEWS ITEMS THIS WEEK, PRESIDENT TRUMP SIGNED THE BILL TO RELEASE THE EPSTEIN FILES, HE CALLED SOME DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TRAITORS AND MULTIPLE COURT RULINGS WERE OUT AGAIN THIS WEEK.

CINDY RUGELEY HEADS UP THE POLITICAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA DULUTH.

ALWAYS HAPPY TO HAVE HER DRIVE ALL THE WAY DOWN I35 TO JOIN US.

LARRY JACOBS TOILS AWAY AT THE U OF M'S TWIN CITIES CAM CAMPUS WHERE HE HEADS UP THE HUMPHREY SCHOOL CENTER FOR POLITICS AND GOVERNANCE.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

PROFESSOR RUGELEY, PRESIDENT MET WITH THE INCOMING NEW YORK CITY MAYOR, MAMDANI TODAY.

KIND OF INTERESTING MEETING.

PRESIDENT AND NEW YORK CITY MAYOR.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT?

>> THAT WAS SOMETHING.

IT WAS A SWEET FEST, LIKE WERE VERY NICE AND RESPECTFUL TO EACH OTHER.

IT WAS SURPRISING AND I MEAN I LISTENED TO IT ON THE RADIO ND I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT 12 YEARS AGO THIS WOULD BE WHAT WAS EXPECTED BUT IT'S NOT ANYMORE WHERE THEY HAVE THIS NICE CONVERSATION AND EVERYTHING.

AND, YOU KNOW, I SUSPECT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENING IS THAT FOLKS THINK THAT THE MAYOR-ELECT WON, YOU KNOW, GOT WHAT HE WANTED OUT OF IT AND THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS PLAYED.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST THE NATURE OF THEIR TWO BASES AND HOW THEY RESPOND TO THINGS.

WHERE, YOU KNOW, SEEMS LIKE TRUMP'S BASE WANTS, HIT HIM IN THE FACE AND MAMDANI'S IS SAYING, ALL RIGHT, YOU PLAYED IT.

>> Cathy: SEEMS LIKE THOUGH THE PRESIDENT TOOK THE AIR OUT OF THE BALLOONS OF SOME OF THE MAGA FOLKS WHO WERE NOT TERRIBLY IMPRESSED WITH THE MAYOR-ELECT, WORRIED ABOUT HIM.

>> OH, YEAH, FOR SURE.

MAMDANI'S GOING TO BECOME THE POSTER CHILD FOR THE FAR LEFT AND REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO BE RUNNING AGAINST THIS FOR THREE YEARS AT LEAST.

FOUR YEARS.

MAMDANI'S TERM.

BUT THE THING I FIND INTERESTING IS DONALD TRUMP'S BIG PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IS AFFORDABILITY.

AND THAT WAS MAMDANI'S WHOLE CAMPAIGN.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, OH, THAT'S ANOTHER WEIRD TRUMP EXPERIENCE.

BUT I GIVE TRUMP A LOT MORE CREDIT THAN THAT.

I THINK HE REALIZES HE HAS TO KIND OF FIND A WAY TO RUN IN FRONT OF THIS PARADE, AND YOU KNOW, WELCOMING MAMDANI, WELCOMING THAT AGENDA IS A WAY TO TRY TO START.

I THINK HE'S GOT A LOT OF WORK TO DO BUT IT WAS A SHREWD MOVE I THINK.

>> NOW THAT THE SMOKE HAS CLEARED A LITTLE BIT FROM THE EPSTEIN FILES BEING SIGNED INTO LAW.

I'M READING THERE ARE LOOPHOLES LIKE CRAZY THAT COULD PREVENT A FULL AIRING OF THE SITUATION.

IS THAT FAIR?

>> YEAH, THAT IS FAIR.

AND I THINK THAT LARRY AND I BOTH AGREE IT'S NOT AS BAD FOR THE DEMOCRATS AS IT'S BEING PAINTED.

FOR THE FIRST TIME THEY ARE DISCUSSING, YOU KNOW, THE CUT AND THE SUBSIDIES.

I THINK THAT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED.

IT WASN'T SOMETHING WHERE THERE WAS AN AFFIRMATIVE ACTION TO ELIMINATE THE SUBSIDIES, THEY JUST DIDN'T RENEW THEM.

SO, YEAH, THERE'S PLENTY OF THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT SUBSIDIES WON'T GET RELEASED.

OH, YEAH -- BUT I THINK IT'S ON THE EPSTEIN FILES I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE THE RIAL, I THINK THEY'RE JUST GOING TO SAY THAT WE'RE INVESTIGATING, INVESTIGATING IS STILL ALIVE.

>> Eric: IS IT GOING TO GO AWAY?

>> NO.

>> Eric: NOT BE AN ISSUE?

>> I MEAN, WELL, DONALD TRUMP'S PROBLEM IS HE'S GOT A POSE AFTER HIM.

AND PART OF THEM ARE HIS BASE, REPUBLICANS ARE DEMANDING WHAT THEY CALL TRANSPARENCY.

AND IF DONALD TRUMP REALLY FOLLOWS THROUGH IN TRANSPARENCY THE FILES ILL BY ALL ACCOUNTS HAVE A LOT ABOUT HIM.

THAT'S JUST GOING TO FEED THIS, YOU KNOW, FEEDING FRENZY.

AND THEN YOU OT THE DEMOCRATS WHO SEE THIS AS A TERRIFIC WAY TO KNOCK TRUMP DOWN.

IN FACT I THINK THIS MAY BE, IT'S ONE OF THED WORST MONTHS THAT I CAN RECALL A PRESIDENT HAVING.

WE'VE GOT EPSTEIN, WHICH IS MOBILIZING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AGAINST TRUMP, AND THE BIG, ONE OF THE BIG VARIABLES COMING UP IN THE '26 ELECTION IS GOING TO BE TURNOUT OF THE REPUBLICANS AND WITH THIS IT'S GOING TO GO THE OTHER WAY.

THIS IS GOING TO BE DEMOBILIZING.

BUT THE OTHER PART OF THIS IS DONALD TRUMP HAS MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE WANTS THE CLINTONS INVESTIGATED AND IT'S JUST A SETUP FOR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO SAY, OOPS, WE CAN'T RELEASE EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD VIOLATE OUR RULES WHILE WE'RE CONDUCTING AN INVESTIGATION.

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT'S COMING.

AND IT'S JUST GOING TO FEED INTO THE SENSE THAT DONALD TRUMP IS NOT OLLOWING THROUGH WITH THE TRANSPARENCY.

>> YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT THERE'S, HIS BASE IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU'D EXPECT.

I MEAN, THEY REALLY EXPECT SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN YOU EXPECT FROM TRADITIONAL PRESIDENTS.

I MEAN, ON THIS ONE, DEALING WITH THE EPSTEIN FILES IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE IT GOES INTO THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT THAT THERE'S TWO SETS OF RULES.

THOSE FOR THE RICH AND POWERFUL, AND I THINK TRUMP IS ALWAYS SEEN AS A GUY THAT WAS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ON THAT.

THAT, YOU KNOW, HE LOOKED OUT FOR THEM.

AND, YEAH, THERE'S A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT GO ITH IT BUT I DO THINK A LOT OF IT DEALS WITH THE FACT THAT THEY EXPECT HIM TO BE DIFFERENT AS FAR AS THAT.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE SEDITION COMMENTS THAT HE MADE IN REFERENCE TO SEVERAL DEMOCRATIC MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO SERVED IN THE MILITARY, MADE THEIR COMMENTS, AND HE CALLED THEM, THAT THOSE WERE SEDITIOUS COMMENTS AND TRAITORS AND SEDITION IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.

I MEAN.

THE WHITE HOUSE WALKED THAT BACK OBVIOUSLY BUT T'S NOT LIKE IT'S, THE RHETORIC'S BEEN TONED DOWN AT ALL.

>> NO, I MEAN, DONALD TRUMP IS TERRIFIC AT KIND OF LIKE SPEWING OUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT STORIES.

SO YOUR HEAD JUST STARTS SPINNING AND IT'S A GREAT DISTRACTION.

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT EPSTEIN?

NO, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SEDITION.

SO I THINK IT'S JUST PART OF, YOU KNOW, THE ONGOING TRUMP STRATEGY AND TO THE EXTENT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT, NOT EPSTEIN, NOT THE ELECTION AND NOT THE POLITICAL EFFECTS OF THE ECONOMY, WHICH ARE REALLY QUITE PROFOUND.

>> Cathy: ALTHOUGH IN A STATE THAT HAD A POLITICAL ASSASSINATION, I NOTICED NONE OF THE MINNESOTA MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, REPUBLICANS HAD ANYTHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

BUT SOME OF THESE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARE GETTING DEATH THREATS.

>> IT IS REALLY HORRIFIC THAT PART.

AND EVEN MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN WHO'S A FAVORITE OF THE DEMOCRATS, WHEN TRUMP CALLED HER A TRAITOR SHE HAD THE SURGE OF DEATH THREATS AGAINST HER AND SHE SAYS SHE'S WORRIED ABOUT WHETHER SHE'S GOING TO SURVIVE.

AND THIS S FROM THE PRESIDENT WHO SHE'S BEEN LOYALLY BACKING UP UNTIL THIS EPSTEIN EPISODE.

I AGREE WITH YOU, I THINK THE SEDITION COMMENT, IT'S SERIOUS BUT I DO THINK T'S PART OF THE TRUMP STRATEGY.

>> Eric: IS TRUMP SHOWING HIS LAME DUCKEDNESS HERE A LITTLE BIT?

ARE REPUBLICANS GOING TO BE LESS AFRAID OF HIM AS HE MOVES ON HERE IN HIS TERM?

>> I THINK HE'S SHOWING HIS VULNERABILITY.

I THINK SHE'S SHOWING THAT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT LOW 40s, HIGH 30 APPROVAL RATING DEPENDING ON THE POLLS IT'S SHOWING VULNERABILITY, HE'S NOT THE SAME THREAT THAT HE WAS BEFORE.

AND I MEAN ONE OF THE THING THINGS THAT PEOPLE LOOK AT PEOPLE LOOK AT WHEN THEY GET A PRESIDENT AND THEY'RE NOT AS STRONG WHEN THEY'VE GOT THESE KIND OF APPROVAL RATINGS, SUDDENLY THESE GUYS ARE GOING HOW TIGHT DO WE WANT TO BE WITH HIM WHEN WE'RE GOING INTO MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

, OW DOES THAT CHANGE THE 2026 POLITICAL LANDSCAPE?

>> THIS HAS BEEN A HORRIBLE MONTH.

THE APPROVAL RATINGS WHICH ARE REFLECTING THE DEEP CONCERN ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

THERE WAS AN N BC POLL THAT SHOWED ONLY 30% SAID DONALD TRUMP WAS LIVING UP TO HIS PROMISES TO HOLD INFLATION DOWN.

AND YOU SEE IT IN ALL SORTS OF NUMBERS.

THEN YOU GET TO THE ELECTION RESULTS WHICH, OKAY, THEY WERE IN DEMOCRATIC STATES.

BUT THE THING I WOULD FOCUS ON IS THE TURNOUT.

THE TURNOUT IN NEW JERSEY AND ELSEWHERE OF DEMOCRATS WAS PRETTY EXTRAORDINARY.

MEANWHILE DONALD TRUMP IS DEMOBILIZING REPUBLICANS WITH THE EPSTEIN.

THAT'S SOMETHING TO KEEP AN EYE ON.

>> Eric: OKAY, THANKS FOR COMING DOWN.

SAFE TRAVELS.

AND HAPPY THANKSGIVING.